Excerpt from a Conversation

Editor’s note:
This is an excerpt from a conversation/interview between Lu Kellert, a graphic designer currently based in Budapest, and Sidef, a Berlin-based artist, about what it means to be an artist as well as about the exclusivity of the institutional art sphere. It was transcribed, edited and translated from German by Lu kellert, and proofread by Anna Katalin Szilágyi.
From the 14th of November 2024

L: Thanks that you found time! I would like to ask you to briefly introduce yourself. Who you are, what you do and how you define yourself.

S: Hi, I am Marta. By now, my artist name has become Sidef, which means nacre in Romanian, my mother tongue. Nacre, because those are the colors I identify with the most. I am a freelance artist and every week I have different projects, where I mostly paint walls for local businesses. Everything started when I worked as a barista in a café and painted there, the walls and everything. For a while that was only my hobby, but slowly it developed into a business.

I’ve been doing this for four years now and my name grew over time.

But that’s not necessarily what I want to do the most. Something developed, without my consent so to speak, I just went along. Being an artist is my passion, I love painting and I have painted all my life. I never did it for myself. Even if you do what you love, it doesn’t always mean you can identify with it and you can fall into a trap. To favor others; I also thought: “I am mini-famous for that in Berlin, I just have to continue, even if it doesn’t make me happy.”

L: So your artistic practice only takes a job-service purpose in your life at the moment?

S: Yes it has come to this. Which isn’t bad either, I always had fun. Meeting new people every week, learn their stories, new concepts. And I think it’s not only about the same thing in every job.

L: How much room does your creative practice take in your life? How did it change over time?

S: I have started to engage with finding out whether one already has their talents by birth, or if they develop. Are you born with it or do your parents engage with it, in order to create a talent? Growing up, there was always painting, art and music in my life.

I wake up and I feel as an artist: I have to start singing, I have to write things. Every time I write, I am writing beautifully, because I always saw that with my mom. I think it starts there. And then I’m on the street, and see things differently than others. Mostly the nature around me, logos and letterings. I cannot say that I’m only an artist when painting.

L: It’s something that surrounds your whole life, you said that nicely. Thanks for that. How did you manage that and how do you develop as an artist? Do you even see a point in that?

S: Like I said, I painted a lot of boards in Berlin and it became bigger. What defines me as an artist are mostly the colors turquoise and pink, and palm trees and animals that have patterns. They fascinate me. They make me so happy, so I always put them in.

Then people started contacting for me for that. By now, I also started painting walls. But there were commissions, where I had to adapt to the clients, I think you often have to do that as a designer. You have to imagine it like this: There were wings on my back, big and beautiful wings that that steadily shrunk, it felt like that. Then for a while it was my main source of income, so it was not easy just to quit. I also forgot to take care of myself. When I tried to paint for myself, I was always stuck. “I have this super power and I’m not using it. I should give myself more time for it.”

It does not matter if I’m not earning any money in the beginning, I should just start doing it for me. Two months ago I managed it. Since then I’m taking few commissions. I raised my prices, so only people who really want me would stay. I don’t know what I will do yet. I told my mother that I’m not happy as an artist and she said: “Doesn’t matter what they think, it should make you happy”. When I heard this from my mother, everything changed.

L: I really feel that you are independent in what you want to do and that you want to develop your art by yourself. You told me once that you studied something creative before, but that it didn’t work out. I can really see where this is coming from, but can you tell a bit about your experiences?

S: That was some years ago, I was 20, now I’m 28. Every day there was a charade, it was a competition. I didn’t reinvent myself, because it dried up my creativity. For example, we had a drawing course and I had the feeling I could not understand the teachers and what they wanted from me. Because of that I felt I had nothing to do there, even when it is important today to have a diploma or to be educated. I think a lot of people have this pressure. Because of that people also go to schools they don’t fit in.

But trust me, if you feel it’s not doing you well: Just quit it. It was also because I was the only foreigner. I didn’t feel excluded, but there was a boundary for sure. To go to uni right after school, because society pressures you; I think that’s a big mistake, because you don’t know yourself.

L: But everything seemed to have worked out? Or do you have the feeling that a diploma gives you more opportunities? Do you sometimes have the feeling that you’re not part of a group, because you don’t have one?

S: I had it with clients and it was a fight with myself, almost every day. People see me as uneducated and don’t appreciate me.

I wish I could have moments like those back in school, where I had a teacher who was fascinated by what they were doing. That they would gift you this fascination. But that was missing—having a mentor—and my mom was not always there, unfortunately.

The thing with the diploma and having this fight with myself: “I don’t have a diploma, I’m not good enough and I’ll never be. I don’t have this diploma and can’t show people that I can do it”. But there were cases when I saw people that had a lot of theory, but didn’t know how and where to start. I think that’s something I was able to manage alone, I mean I started having a business at 19–20. I’m happy and satisfied with myself for that.

I want to somehow teach young people how to get into the scene, because I know it is hard.

L: You mentioned a scene right now, how is it? Do you have connections in Berlin, since you’ve been there for some time? What kind of environment are you in? Are all your friends artists or do you have multiple groups?

S: Art…oh god. I’m going to tell you a secret now: I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but I can’t or maybe don’t want to identify myself as an artist. Because I never saw the best in artists, I never met an artist that fascinated me—because they always think so much of themselves. I can’t be friends with those kind of people, that’s why I don’t have artist friends. I know a few tattoo artists, but that’s something different, because they don’t act like people who see themselves as artists. I hope I’m not insulting you right now…

L: No, absolutely not. It’s interesting to see it from the outside. From the people I met the last three years—since I’m studying—only a few people are not connected to the art bubble. At some point you get in and then it’s hard to connect with other people. You are in your own world.

S: That’s how it is, I build a barrier there. I just keep my distance from artists. Maybe I actually should be more open, because not all artists are the same, I know that. I simply never gave myself the chance to get more into the field. A good friend of mine is also artistically talented, she’s a musician. She’s the only one, besides that I just know “ordinary people”, like IT or marketing. I am alone and I don’t completely understand why. I was never thrilled by artists, I think it has to happen in university, otherwise it’s not happening.

L: Have you tried to insert yourself into the field yet? Have you tried handing in something for a competition, open call or an exhibition?

S: I definitely want to do an exhibition, but you can’t make one when you don’t know what to exhibit. I don’t see the reason to do a competition. I think these things have to come from somewhere. You have to feel the need for it, but I think when you’re not taught to have to do that… When I’m ready I want to show what makes me happy to other people. I see that as art somehow, making other people happy or evoking feelings. But that doesn’t have to be a goal, you don’t have to show who you are or how good you are. We only have this feeling because of society, I have felt it very often.

L: So you mean that the way the art bubble works is conditioned, unnatural? Is that what you want to say?

S: It’s possible that lots of fields are like that, not only art. We are social animals, it fulfills you when you can fit in somewhere. Also back in time, those artist hubs, where artists gathered or poets or musicians—I think it has an appeal and I believe it’s magical when people work and create together. But some alter themselves, so they can fit in a circle. I know that I don’t want to do that, I don’t have a problem with that. I wouldn’t of have have understood until now.

L: Understood what?

S: That I have no artist friends, for example. I had a friend in Barcelona, who really liked to paint. We went to a park and painted together. That’s the first time ever I did that. So when it happens by itself, then sure.

Often I thought I should go to an exhibition, these posh ones, there are so many here in Berlin. I should see if I fit into this world—dressing chic, drinking some wine—I definitely want to try that. I don’t necessarily see myself as an artist, so to speak. Who knows, only thinking that you’re not fitting in doesn’t mean you wouldn’t or that you couldn’t like it.

L: You’re saying you don’t see yourself as an artist. What does this word mean for you, actually?

S: I don’t know, maybe it’s even a trauma. My mom is very talented, we have the love—for everything around us—from her. There was a moment when I thought: “I’m like my mom, I have that from her, that’s so cool!”. We once were taking a walk and sat on a bench and then she just said: “Look how pretty that branch sits in the sun!”. It’s rare that people understand when I show them something like that.

She always painted, she actually studied art, yet she never earned money with it. That was a frustration for me. In my head it was always like: “She never made it and that’s why you’re never gonna make it as well”. It was like a mantra, it always dragged me down.

Then she completely stopped painting for a period. She sent me a parcel with papers and water colors, that dragged me down even more. I have somehow lived through her—this fascination with painting—because she sparked it in me. And when she quit, it did not make sense anymore. Now I know that our relationships with your talents are complicated and that she was in a learning process herself, I just didn’t know back then.

It’s very complicated for me to grasp what an artist is. For example artist are also those who have nothing to do with reality, they have this talent and most of them are insane. I don’t know how it works, but it is so. I think being an artist is what I told you, but also what I can’t define myself with, this snobby thing and this competition: that you are better than others. I don’t see this in me and for that I don’t want to identify with that. Maybe it is also because I don’t always like what I paint. Yeah, maybe that’s the answer.

L: That’s a shame. Shouldn’t being an artist be the other way around, only people who really feel it and don’t have to fit in, who do what moves them?

S: Yes, but it’s not my decision to define that, right?

L: I mean, how you see it is always your decision.

S: How do you see it?

L: It’s hard for me, because I feel in the middle somehow. Sometimes I feel connected to this academic artisthood, as I sometimes like doing things that maybe not everyone gets right away or because I like being conceptual. 

You think yourself that you are absolutely logical and then you see what somebody else did, with the same thought, but it seems out of touch. Sometimes I see it in others, but I tend to keep it to myself. At the same time I want to do things that others can understand, that are accessible and maybe even help people. Maybe the art bubble made me deviate from that a bit, maybe I can slowly get on track.

That’s why I see myself in between. I see lots of people as artists, I think it’s a broad term. It’s this cheesy: “Everyone is an artist”, but it is kind of true. I think you almost need new words. The term artist almost equates to being human, so maybe one has to specify it somehow. I understand how you feel about this term, but it’s a shame.

S: You said it well. It could be helpful having multiple words for artist. But I run away from this label. But, I will definitely think about this